Hi John. Some questions arose for me when I read Call of Eden. If God meant for the partnership of a man and woman to be one of equality, why was what seemed inequality took place when they both disobeyed God’s instructions? Or, are we missing something that happened when the man and the woman disobeyed God? Is it that they must now submit to a new and unequal relationship? First how they address their new relationship with God? The also with each other? Does the new relationship bind them together in unequal submission? Is their disunity part of their punishment? In effect, it does it lead to a more complicated union/relationship? Does it then also require more of each of them in anything they seek to accomplish together? In effect, does each face a new challenges with each other? Now, how can they put back together what their disobedience destroyed?
In response to your questions: Does it then also require more of each of them in anything they seek to accomplish together? In effect, does each face a new challenges with each other? Now, how can they put back together what their disobedience destroyed?
Yes, it does require a lot. I believe it takes an abundance of grace and forgiveness towards one another in a marriage, or for that matter, in any relationship. It is, as Bonhoeffer stated in his little treatise on Christian community, "Life Together:"
"The Christian needs another Christian who speaks God's Word to him. He needs him again and again when he becomes uncertain and discouraged, for by himself he cannot help himself without belying the truth. He needs his brother man as a bearer and proclaimer of the divine word of salvation. He needs his brother solely because of Jesus Christ. The Christ in his own heart is weaker than the Christ in the word of his brother; his own heart is uncertain, his brother's is sure." This divine word of salvation is the language of grace, forgiveness and truth that upholds the dignity, and respect of my spouse, my Christian brother or sister. Bonhoeffer also said about prayer and intercession for each other:
"A Christian fellowship lives and exists by the intercession of its members for one another, or it collapses. I can no longer condemn or hate a brother for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face, which hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me, is transformed in intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died, the face of a forgiven sinner."
I can only imagine what men and women, couples would feel and think about each other if intercessory prayer for the other were the first impulse over any other.
Hey Aly, good questions. First, yes, as I have read and studied this passage, God meant for the partnership of man and woman to be a partnership in the fullest sense of the word. Their creative ambitions are fully satisfied through intimacy, admiration, and affirmation of each other. But then we come to the curse. And the question arises, were the curses of Genesis 3 prescriptive by God or descriptive? I say the latter. Just as both the man and woman felt shame after their disobedience, now there will be outcomes that tear apart what they were intended for and to experience. With the Fall, they can no longer live their lives together in equal mutuality. Now, they are locked into a competitive relationship where, as history has long pointed out, each becomes oppressive and abusive in their own way. With the man, we most often see this through his size and strength though even that now has exceptions with women being the perpetrator of injustice. Avarice, meanness, jealousy, ...the list goes on. A relationship characterized by mutual self-sacrifice, abundance and joy now may create hints of that but in frustration and pain. For the curses found in Genesis 3, I lean heavily on the work of two OT contemporary scholars: Sandra Richter and John Walton. I hope this may help.
My responses to my friend Aly are below.
Hi John. Some questions arose for me when I read Call of Eden. If God meant for the partnership of a man and woman to be one of equality, why was what seemed inequality took place when they both disobeyed God’s instructions? Or, are we missing something that happened when the man and the woman disobeyed God? Is it that they must now submit to a new and unequal relationship? First how they address their new relationship with God? The also with each other? Does the new relationship bind them together in unequal submission? Is their disunity part of their punishment? In effect, it does it lead to a more complicated union/relationship? Does it then also require more of each of them in anything they seek to accomplish together? In effect, does each face a new challenges with each other? Now, how can they put back together what their disobedience destroyed?
In response to your questions: Does it then also require more of each of them in anything they seek to accomplish together? In effect, does each face a new challenges with each other? Now, how can they put back together what their disobedience destroyed?
Yes, it does require a lot. I believe it takes an abundance of grace and forgiveness towards one another in a marriage, or for that matter, in any relationship. It is, as Bonhoeffer stated in his little treatise on Christian community, "Life Together:"
"The Christian needs another Christian who speaks God's Word to him. He needs him again and again when he becomes uncertain and discouraged, for by himself he cannot help himself without belying the truth. He needs his brother man as a bearer and proclaimer of the divine word of salvation. He needs his brother solely because of Jesus Christ. The Christ in his own heart is weaker than the Christ in the word of his brother; his own heart is uncertain, his brother's is sure." This divine word of salvation is the language of grace, forgiveness and truth that upholds the dignity, and respect of my spouse, my Christian brother or sister. Bonhoeffer also said about prayer and intercession for each other:
"A Christian fellowship lives and exists by the intercession of its members for one another, or it collapses. I can no longer condemn or hate a brother for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face, which hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me, is transformed in intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died, the face of a forgiven sinner."
I can only imagine what men and women, couples would feel and think about each other if intercessory prayer for the other were the first impulse over any other.
Hey Aly, good questions. First, yes, as I have read and studied this passage, God meant for the partnership of man and woman to be a partnership in the fullest sense of the word. Their creative ambitions are fully satisfied through intimacy, admiration, and affirmation of each other. But then we come to the curse. And the question arises, were the curses of Genesis 3 prescriptive by God or descriptive? I say the latter. Just as both the man and woman felt shame after their disobedience, now there will be outcomes that tear apart what they were intended for and to experience. With the Fall, they can no longer live their lives together in equal mutuality. Now, they are locked into a competitive relationship where, as history has long pointed out, each becomes oppressive and abusive in their own way. With the man, we most often see this through his size and strength though even that now has exceptions with women being the perpetrator of injustice. Avarice, meanness, jealousy, ...the list goes on. A relationship characterized by mutual self-sacrifice, abundance and joy now may create hints of that but in frustration and pain. For the curses found in Genesis 3, I lean heavily on the work of two OT contemporary scholars: Sandra Richter and John Walton. I hope this may help.